Discussion:
[freenet-support] Newbie questions
Amuza
2017-01-22 17:27:11 UTC
Permalink
Hello!

I have never tried Freenet but I already have some questions:

How do nodes discover each other?
Can nodes within a LAN connect to each other without any special
configuration?
Do they need Internet access?
Would nodes keep automatically connecting when they are in a LAN where
some days there is no Internet access?

Does Freenet have any kind of real asynchronous messaging?
If so, how does it work?

Thank you!!
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Steve Dougherty
2017-01-22 18:01:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Amuza
Hello!
How do nodes discover each other?
In opennet mode ("normal" or "low" network security) they connect to
seed nodes (a list of which is included with the software) run by
volunteers which provide them with an initial set of possible
connections, and during normal operation performs path folding to
maintain and improve its connections. [0]

When not in opennet mode (and therefore in "darknet mode;" if both modes
are in use it's "hybrid") connections must be manually and mutually added.
Post by Amuza
Can nodes within a LAN connect to each other without any special
configuration?
It depends on what you mean by special configuration. It does require
that the nodes' operators add one another as "friends" by trading node
references, but this is intended as routine configuration.
Post by Amuza
Do they need Internet access?
No, but note that a completely isolated darknet would have no way to
access the content available through the public opennet network. This
includes updates to the software. As long as one member of the darknet
is also connected to opennet this will not be the case. (Though
performance will be slow.)
Post by Amuza
Would nodes keep automatically connecting when they are in a LAN where
some days there is no Internet access?
Yes.
Post by Amuza
Does Freenet have any kind of real asynchronous messaging?
Yes, and it depends what you mean.
Post by Amuza
If so, how does it work?
Darknet peers can send direct messages by clicking on the peer's name on
the friends page. If the peers are not both online and connected the
message will be deferred until they are. The user interface for this is
very poor but it does function.

Otherwise, messaging tools like FLIP, Freemail, or Sone can do that.
[1][2][3] They work by inserting and fetching the messages as files.
Post by Amuza
Thank you!!
Yep. :) Hope this helps.

- Steve

[0] https://wiki.freenetproject.org/Opennet
[1]
***@pGQPA-9PcFiE3A2tCuCjacK165UaX07AQYw98iDQrNA,8gwQ67ytBNR03hNj7JU~ceeew22HVq6G50dcEeMcgks,AQACAAE/flip/12/
[2] http://freesocial.draketo.de/freemail_en.html
[3]
***@nwa8lHa271k2QvJ8aa0Ov7IHAV-DFOCFgmDt3X6BpCI,DuQSUZiI~agF8c-6tjsFFGuZ8eICrzWCILB60nT8KKo,AQACAAE/sone/75/
Amuza
2017-01-23 11:14:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Dougherty
Post by Amuza
Hello!
How do nodes discover each other?
In opennet mode ("normal" or "low" network security) they connect to
seed nodes (a list of which is included with the software) run by
volunteers which provide them with an initial set of possible
connections, and during normal operation performs path folding to
maintain and improve its connections. [0]
When not in opennet mode (and therefore in "darknet mode;" if both modes
are in use it's "hybrid") connections must be manually and mutually added.
Post by Amuza
Can nodes within a LAN connect to each other without any special
configuration?
It depends on what you mean by special configuration. It does require
that the nodes' operators add one another as "friends" by trading node
references, but this is intended as routine configuration.
Post by Amuza
Do they need Internet access?
No, but note that a completely isolated darknet would have no way to
access the content available through the public opennet network. This
includes updates to the software. As long as one member of the darknet
is also connected to opennet this will not be the case. (Though
performance will be slow.)
Post by Amuza
Would nodes keep automatically connecting when they are in a LAN where
some days there is no Internet access?
Yes.
Post by Amuza
Does Freenet have any kind of real asynchronous messaging?
Yes, and it depends what you mean.
I mean, something like this:
Alice is online and sends a message which has Caroline (her Freenet
friend) as the recipient, but Caroline is offline. Fortunately Barbara
(who is a common Freenet friend of both Alice and Caroline) is online.
Then Alice goes offline. Then Caroline goes online and receives Alice's
message. Barbara (or other common online Freenet friend) automatically
forwarded the message without being able to read it.
Post by Steve Dougherty
Post by Amuza
If so, how does it work?
Darknet peers can send direct messages by clicking on the peer's name on
the friends page. If the peers are not both online and connected the
message will be deferred until they are. The user interface for this is
very poor but it does function.
Otherwise, messaging tools like FLIP, Freemail, or Sone can do that.
[1][2][3] They work by inserting and fetching the messages as files.
I guess some of those three messaging tools do somehow the kind of
asynchronous messaging I meant. Do they?
Post by Steve Dougherty
Post by Amuza
Thank you!!
Yep. :) Hope this helps.
- Steve
It does! Great explanations! As soon as I have a while I will try Freenet.

Let me ask another one, this one is more difficult:

In the case you, or anyone in this list, know a bit about other
more-or-less similar decentralized tools like Retroshare, Zeronet, Tox,
IPFS, etc, could you very briefly compare them to Freenet and easily say
some advantage or disadvantage of some of those tools over Freenet?

Thanks again.
Post by Steve Dougherty
[0] https://wiki.freenetproject.org/Opennet
[1]
[2] http://freesocial.draketo.de/freemail_en.html
[3]
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Steve Dougherty
2017-01-23 14:20:51 UTC
Permalink
The Tor comparison is easiest to answer because there's a FAQ entry:
https://freenetproject.org/help.html#tor
Post by Amuza
Hello!
How do nodes discover each other?
In opennet mode ("normal" or "low" network security) they connect to
seed nodes (a list of which is included with the software) run by
volunteers which provide them with an initial set of possible
connections, and during normal operation performs path folding to
maintain and improve its connections. [0]
When not in opennet mode (and therefore in "darknet mode;" if both modes
are in use it's "hybrid") connections must be manually and mutually added.
Can nodes within a LAN connect to each other without any special
configuration?
It depends on what you mean by special configuration. It does require
that the nodes' operators add one another as "friends" by trading node
references, but this is intended as routine configuration.
Do they need Internet access?
No, but note that a completely isolated darknet would have no way to
access the content available through the public opennet network. This
includes updates to the software. As long as one member of the darknet
is also connected to opennet this will not be the case. (Though
performance will be slow.)
Would nodes keep automatically connecting when they are in a LAN where
some days there is no Internet access?
Yes.
Does Freenet have any kind of real asynchronous messaging?
Yes, and it depends what you mean.
Alice is online and sends a message which has Caroline (her Freenet
friend) as the recipient, but Caroline is offline. Fortunately Barbara (who
is a common Freenet friend of both Alice and Caroline) is online. Then
Alice goes offline. Then Caroline goes online and receives Alice's message.
Barbara (or other common online Freenet friend) automatically forwarded the
message without being able to read it.
If so, how does it work?
Darknet peers can send direct messages by clicking on the peer's name on
the friends page. If the peers are not both online and connected the
message will be deferred until they are. The user interface for this is
very poor but it does function.
Otherwise, messaging tools like FLIP, Freemail, or Sone can do that.
[1][2][3] They work by inserting and fetching the messages as files.
I guess some of those three messaging tools do somehow the kind of
asynchronous messaging I meant. Do they?
Thank you!!
Yep. :) Hope this helps.
- Steve
It does! Great explanations! As soon as I have a while I will try Freenet.
In the case you, or anyone in this list, know a bit about other
more-or-less similar decentralized tools like Retroshare, Zeronet, Tox,
IPFS, etc, could you very briefly compare them to Freenet and easily say
some advantage or disadvantage of some of those tools over Freenet?
Thanks again.
[0] https://wiki.freenetproject.org/Opennet
[1]
[2] http://freesocial.draketo.de/freemail_en.html
[3]
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Unsubscribe at http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support
_______________________________________________
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http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support
Unsubscribe at
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Arne Babenhauserheide
2017-01-23 22:10:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Amuza
Post by Steve Dougherty
Post by Amuza
Does Freenet have any kind of real asynchronous messaging?
Yes, and it depends what you mean.
Alice is online and sends a message which has Caroline (her Freenet
friend) as the recipient, but Caroline is offline. Fortunately Barbara
(who is a common Freenet friend of both Alice and Caroline) is online.
Then Alice goes offline. Then Caroline goes online and receives Alice's
message. Barbara (or other common online Freenet friend) automatically
forwarded the message without being able to read it.
If you use freemail (email over Freenet), then yes: The data is uploaded
in encrypted form into Freenet and only Caroline can decrypt it. Barbara
does not even need to be a direct friend of the two: It can be any other
freenet node.

This is the generalized case of what you describe and powers most of the
pseudonymous communication in Freenet.
Post by Amuza
Post by Steve Dougherty
Post by Amuza
If so, how does it work?
Darknet peers can send direct messages by clicking on the peer's name on
the friends page. If the peers are not both online and connected the
message will be deferred until they are. The user interface for this is
very poor but it does function.
Otherwise, messaging tools like FLIP, Freemail, or Sone can do that.
[1][2][3] They work by inserting and fetching the messages as files.
I guess some of those three messaging tools do somehow the kind of
asynchronous messaging I meant. Do they?
Freemail does the private communication.
Sone does Social-network-style communication with pseudonyms.
FLIP implements chat with an IRC interface.
Post by Amuza
It does! Great explanations! As soon as I have a while I will try Freenet.
In the case you, or anyone in this list, know a bit about other
more-or-less similar decentralized tools like Retroshare, Zeronet, Tox,
IPFS, etc, could you very briefly compare them to Freenet and easily say
some advantage or disadvantage of some of those tools over Freenet?
For zeronet there’s an answer by Chris Double. Scroll down to Conclusion
for a comparison:
https://bluishcoder.co.nz/2015/01/15/decentralized-websites-with-zeronet.html

A note on IPFS and Freenet is available in his article about hosting
websites in Freenet (though mainly focused on hosting with Freenet):
https://bluishcoder.co.nz/2015/09/14/using-freenet-for-static-websites.html

For a comparison of Freenet with several other tools, see
http://www.draketo.de/proj/freenet-funding/#sec-9

Best wishes,
Arne
--
Unpolitisch sein
heißt politisch sein
ohne es zu merken
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